I was going through some papers today and came across something that really gave me pause for thought. Last summer, my primary physician heard a heart murmur. Initially he thought it was just a flow murmur, but it got louder and he referred me to a cardiologist. The cardiologist I saw put me through a battery of tests but my heart was fine. She also heard the murmur and noted bruits. At this point in my life I was in perfect health and all of this freaked me out more than I can convey. The cardiologist told me I needed to have a thoracic MRA done. She could she I was scared and said, “this is usually something we can take care of.” I was really scared and when my insurance didn’t clear the MRA initially -which we knew would happen- I foolishly didn’t push the issue. Meanwhile, my primary physician looked over my heart tests and figured I was fine and that this was just a flow murmur.
Eight months later, in March of this year, my AVM ruptured. I’m still going through physical therapy, although I’m dong much better. Now, as I look back on the events of last year, I can’t help wondering if the cardiologist had found the AVM. I’m going to write to her and ask but just wanted to know if anyone else had their AVM discovered as a result of a murmur or bruit?
I had a loud swooshing noise inside my head in addition to severe headaches. I probably saw a dozen doctors who said it was part of the aging process. I knew it was something else and finally saw a neurologist I was sent to to check my heart. As she was checking my heat with the stethescope, I told her to put it on top of my head and listen to what I had to listen to 24/7. She did so and was shocked enough to call in 7 other doctors and students to listen to it.
I was then sent for numerous scans and the eventual diagnosis of a “dura arterio venous fistula” which is similar to an AVM I am told.
Since then I have undergone three embolizations and a gamma knife, which was done in July. I hope this helps you.
Dewdo from the other Washington
I was not diagnosed by my bruit or heart murmur though I have both. My doctor did a ct scan to rule out problems because of my severe migraines. I was young (11) so I thought the sounds I was hearing (heart beat sound, swooshing, ringing) where normal. Today I know better.
I had the bruit forever, just didn’t know that’s what it was. I didn’t know it wasn’t normal until after I’d had my bleed/crani. In fact, I didn’t even know what it was called before joining this site. Back then I thought everyone heard the noise. Wow, wonder if your cardiologist was discovering the AVM and just didn’t know it?
Thanks for your replies. I also grew up with the swooshing sounds in my ear. When I had my bleed, it literally sounded like the ocean.
I’m not sure if my Cardio thought it was an AVM or not. I suspect she knew it was some kind of venous malformation.
I wonder if there are people out there who have a diagnosed heart murmur which, in fact, is a bruit secondary to an AVM.
thanks again all!
Wow, my 9 year old was just diagnosed with a heart murmur. He had a normal xray and ekg. I have a 3cm brain Avm that is treated, but I am scared for my kids. :(
May I ask, what and where is a bruit? Is it the loud swoosh in your head or something heard in the heart?
I was having an exam of a heart murmur when the AVM was discovered. I had been having the swooshing noise inside my head for some time, but none of the all the doctors I saw atributed it to getting older.
Erica Morrow said:
Wow, my 9 year old was just diagnosed with a heart murmur. He had a normal xray and ekg. I have a 3cm brain Avm that is treated, but I am scared for my kids. :(
May I ask, what and where is a bruit? Is it the loud swoosh in your head or something heard in the heart?
Erica, a bruit is the sound the patient hears and can be heard via a stethoscope where high pressure blood goes from arteries into veins without going through capillaries. For you to hear it in your head, I'm guessing the AVM has to be in your head, but I'm not sure.
My wife's bruit was heard when her AVM showed up (she had a massive seizure and the AVM showed up on a CT scan). She had heard the bruit all her life, but as others have stated, she thought everyone heard it. Several Drs let each of us listen to it through the stethoscope--it was very clear.
As she had embolizations, the sound of the bruit diminished. Following microsurgery to remove the remaining, her bruit disappeared. For a long time, she had trouble going to sleep--the bruit had lulled her to sleep all her life and now there was silence!
Best wishes,
ron, ks
Thank you! How is your wife these days, Ron? Happy holidays to all of you.... Erica
Ron, KS said:
Erica, a bruit is the sound the patient hears and can be heard via a stethoscope where high pressure blood goes from arteries into veins without going through capillaries. For you to hear it in your head, I'm guessing the AVM has to be in your head, but I'm not sure.
My wife's bruit was heard when her AVM showed up (she had a massive seizure and the AVM showed up on a CT scan). She had heard the bruit all her life, but as others have stated, she thought everyone heard it. Several Drs let each of us listen to it through the stethoscope--it was very clear.
As she had embolizations, the sound of the bruit diminished. Following microsurgery to remove the remaining, her bruit disappeared. For a long time, she had trouble going to sleep--the bruit had lulled her to sleep all her life and now there was silence!
Best wishes,
ron, ks
What an interested post that I am replying to so late! I have always heard an extremely lound Woosh woosh woosh in my head and didn’t really worry about it until medical training. Anyhow, when I listened to my heart, I also heard the same murmur and worried that it was a sound from my heart radiating to my carotid arteries (neck arteries), but it may also be the murmur from my brain radiating down into my chest. It certainly sounds like this is what turned out to be the case with you! Thank goodness they know now and I wish you a speedy recovery!
My son has a loud heart murmur and Tricuspid Valve regurgitation and he is hearing a loud bruit on his left ear. He had 2 Echo-cardiograms done in the last 3 years and it is getting worse. The neurosurgeon did acknowledge it said it is getting worse, by looking at the Echo-cardiograms. We asked the question whether this is connected to the potential problem in his brain, he said theoretically it can. He said to see a cardiologist and he tried to listen to my son’s head to hear the bruit, what my son is hearing but he did not hear it. He said the bruit my son is hearing could be projected from his heart or visa versa.
Very interesting! You can often hear a brain bruit by placing the bell of the stethoscope over the closed eye! I can hear mine very loudly when I do this! If you have a stethoscope kicking around, give it a go! I’m glad you got some answers and a move foreward:)
Take care,
Vera
Ontario Mom said:
My son has a loud heart murmur and Tricuspid Valve regurgitation and he is hearing a loud bruit on his left ear. He had 2 Echo-cardiograms done in the last 3 years and it is getting worse. The neurosurgeon did acknowledge it said it is getting worse, by looking at the Echo-cardiograms. We asked the question whether this is connected to the potential problem in his brain, he said theoretically it can. He said to see a cardiologist and he tried to listen to my son's head to hear the bruit, what my son is hearing but he did not hear it. He said the bruit my son is hearing could be projected from his heart or visa versa.
Hi, I had a heart murmer, that was heard all my life, the doctors always told my mom it was an “innocent murmer” meaning nothing was really wrong, nothing had to be treated. Until my mom got me a new doctor when i was 13 and the new doc wanted to check it all out to be sure it was “innocent” well it wasnt, it was a condition called PDA and they treated it through cardiac catherazation (embolized it) I find this interesting now, as in March we just discovered an AVM in my lung, and heart and lungs being closely related and now my lung needs almost the same exact procedure that i had with my heart, the embo, i keep searching for a link between the 2 things. My interventional radiologist says they could be related since they are both vascular issues. I dont know, I just feel there is more to my issues!
anyway,
Goodluck with everything!