Hi All,
Please could anyone tell me if they have had experience with the 'stealing effect' of a cerebral AVM to other parts of the brain? This phenomenon seems poorly subscribed to, and I cannot find any conclusive information.
Thanks
Lynn
Lynn I have heard this before,but I’m not sure where . As the avm has no capillaries and no real use for the oxygen .How would it become parasitic and steal oxygen from other part of the brain? You got my interest
Hi,
Well if you consider fluid dynamics (as per a closed system) in this case blood chooses the ‘shortest’ route through the brain, causing an extreme flow of blood through the "invading’ vessel, causing more blood in one area and less in another (hence the steal). In a closed system, one finds out that the system seeks to return to equilibrium causing breakthrough perfusion or bleeding. so while not parasitic as such it does cause and unequal effect. My question is that it would seem that the jury is out on the ‘steal’ phenomenon. This might well be due to the fact that most followups are not done timeously. My kid’s radiointerventionalist and neurologist want to close a feeder to the Vein of Galen. I’m not entirely convinced the reasoning is correct.
Gordon D said:
Lynn I have heard this before,but I’m not sure where . As the avm has no capillaries and no real use for the oxygen .How would it become parasitic and steal oxygen from other part of the brain? You got my interest
Lynn: The avm lack the capillaries, that means that the arterial blood goes directly to the veins under high pressure (because the capillaries normally buffer this pressure). This is the cause of the dilation of arteries and the tangle og nidus.
The “stealing effect” refers to when the avm due to lack of capillaries and thus the buffer effect sometimes drain the blood much faster through the avm and “steal” the blood from other areas of the brain (for example during physical exercise, stress, etc)
I often experiences this avm “stealing effect”, which trigger a myoclonic seizure because of hypoxia (lack og blood) to other, otherwise healthy areas of the brain.
Hanne xxx
My little one might be experiencing these bouts, but would it be very rude to ask how you experience these episodes?
Hanne said:
Lynn: The avm lack the capillaries, that means that the arterial blood goes directly to the veins under high pressure (because the capillaries normally buffer this pressure). This is the cause of the dilation of arteries and the tangle og nidus.
The “stealing effect” refers to when the avm due to lack of capillaries and thus the buffer effect sometimes drain the blood much faster through the avm and “steal” the blood from other areas of the brain (for example during physical exercise, stress, etc)
I often experiences this avm “stealing effect”, which trigger a myoclonic seizure because of hypoxia (lack og blood) to other, otherwise healthy areas of the brain.
Hanne xxx
Lynn: I normally get an “aura” or a warning, that can be numbness, caused by the extra pressure to the brain tissue adjacent to my avm, or tingly feeling up my back. Then I start to shake, usually my left leg, foot and arm/hand (my avm is located in the middle of my motor area in the right parietal area), this develops very quickly into a left sided myoclonic attack/seizure.
That means that my muscles go into very fast spasms and jerks, randomly on my left side. I often fall on the floor, I like to lie on my stomach on the floor during an attack, since my body seems to want to twist to my right side, I also get dystonia, that mean that my left hand and foot will turn inwards in strange postures.
It usually last much longer than an epileptic fit, sometimes as long as one and a half hour or more.
I am usually not able to communicate during an attack. It does not hurt in any way, (unless I bump into things and my leg hits the floor for a looong time, so it usually helps me if someone put a pillow under my knee, head etc) afterwards I feel extremely exhausted!
Sometimes I only get the tingly sensation and numbness but then i think it is only the extra pressure on the nerve tissue next to my avm that gets irritated and not hypoxia to other areas of my brain.
I hope this can be of some help to you, but bear in mind we are all different and there can be more than one explanation to a symptom and more than one experience of it…
Hanne xxx
Hi Hanne,
Thank you so much for this.
Oh it does help. Jarrod doesn’t have a physical shake, but he does have moments of absence and often moans about his head and rubs it furiously. He is scheduled for an embolisation on Thursday, so just trying to do some research. Thank you so much again.
I really appreciate it.
Regards
Lynn
Hanne said:
Lynn: I normally get an “aura” or a warning, that can be numbness, caused by the extra pressure to the brain tissue adjacent to my avm, or tingly feeling up my back. Then I start to shake, usually my left leg, foot and arm/hand (my avm is located in the middle of my motor area in the right parietal area), this develops very quickly into a left sided myoclonic attack/seizure.
That means that my muscles go into very fast spasms and jerks, randomly on my left side. I often fall on the floor, I like to lie on my stomach on the floor during an attack, since my body seems to want to twist to my right side, I also get dystonia, that mean that my left hand and foot will turn inwards in strange postures.
It usually last much longer than an epileptic fit, sometimes as long as one and a half hour or more.
I am usually not able to communicate during an attack. It does not hurt in any way, (unless I bump into things and my leg hits the floor for a looong time, so it usually helps me if someone put a pillow under my knee, head etc) afterwards I feel extremely exhausted!
Sometimes I only get the tingly sensation and numbness but then i think it is only the extra pressure on the nerve tissue next to my avm that gets irritated and not hypoxia to other areas of my brain.
I hope this can be of some help to you, but bear in mind we are all different and there can be more than one explanation to a symptom and more than one experience of it…
Hanne xxx
I am not sure how to respond but I believe the blood is suppose to flow thru capillaries to heart and back to veins to oxygenate the brain. I noticed many years ago before even knowing I had an avm that I had poor circulation in my legs but my gp just dismissed this. I think it
had somethng to do with this avm. Mine is in conjunction to the vein of galen but again I am still very ignorant on all of this and the drs. just seem to chuckle when you make a big deal about this stuff however it is a big deal and scary for sure. I have been so very blessed and am so thankful that I have not had serious problems otehr that balance issues and tingling and numbness. Only (2) dizzy spells and never have had headaches. I have had charlie horses that have been extremely painful and I would have to get up out of bed and walk for prolonged periods to get rid of them and also had some sensory seizure activity. N grand mals thank God! Sensory seizures are like a tingling numbing effect but you can still think and react to the situation and really doesn’t do anything other than scare you and make you hope nothing more serious happens. Best wishes ~
lynn,
my very large avm did have this effect on heathy parts of my brain…thats how it was discovered …my avm never bled but stolen all oxygen and nuterients from my left occipital lobe at the age of 27 and left me with a left visual field deficit…i then dramatically went down hill as it continued and slowly began losing movement in my arm and leg on the left side…the surgeon explain the avm had grown to such a large size being 12.5cm it had began stealing blood supply and oxygen from pother areas of my healthy brain …and even without bleeding if nothing was to be done the avm would definatley end up putting me in a whelchair because the stealing effect would kill of these healthy areas of my brain…hope this info helps