Precautions... What to do and don't do

I need EVERYONE's help / input on this PLEASE!!!

I am trying to compile a list of 'precautions' (things to do and things to avoid) for us AVMers to avoid strokes, seizures, etc. and I need EVERYONE's input of their own knowledge and experience(s). A list of foods, medications, OTC items, time of day (for example: when tired, when stressed, etc.) to do and to avoid is what I am looking for.

(The slightest thing may not seem to the patient / person as having 'value or importance' in contribution but it does, so PLEASE share your experience / knowledge.) I have searched for the knowledge online on the 'professional's official' websites; however, that has proven NOT to yield any results. (I must admit that even though 'little' is known in the medical profession about AVMs, I am unpleasently surprised to not find adequate pertainable information. (My neurosurgeon has not told me any 'restrictions' nor do I have seizures - or at least I am not aware of having any; however, I know we have to be our own 'advocates' in this. I believe it's better to be 'safe than sorry'.) Although sometimes I get scared or unnerved when reading some of the experiences on here, I am so grateful for this site and the helpfulness of everyone! (Thank you Ben for the site... Thank you everyone for sharing & helping!!!) TOGETHER we CAN help each other through this!!! (Knowledge is power! We may not be able to prevent the AVM but we can empower ourselves with the knowledge to prevent additional 'side effects' occurring from it.)

Currently, this is what I know:

I am aware of the following:

Don'ts:

No consuming: aspirin, Advil, Motrin, Aleve, Ibuprofen, antihistamines, decongestants. (Tylenol can be taken. Excedrine Migraine 'Aspirin Free' is fine.) (Note: The 'regular' type of Excedrine Migraine contains aspirin - & caffiene -; therefore, it isn't good for us.)

No heavy lifting nor strenuous exercising. (No lifting over 20 lbs.)

Not a lot of sugar, salt, cheese, nor fried / fatty foods.

No overexerting one's self. (Rest when tired / fatigued. The body heals / repairs itself during rest / sleep and at night.)

No getting too: upset, happy, sad, mad / angry, excited.

Not getting stressed.

Avoid estrogen & Hormone Replacement therapy (HRT).

Dos:

Consume fish (not fried - & no 'fish sandwhiches'). (Salmon, Cod, & tuna are preferred.)

Eat lots of fruits and vegetables. (Blueberries, blackberries, bananas, dark green leafy vegetables are preferred.)

(Note: Some of the most healthiest foods are natural blood thinners - such as vinegar, ginger, Omega-3 fatty foods, blueberries, raisins, cinnamon - and must be countered with foods rich in vitamin K - such as broccoli, Romaine lettuce, mustard greens, collard greens, spinach, parsley, kale, Green Leaf lettuce, Endive lettuce, Iceburg lettuce, Swiss chard, turnip greens, seaweed, beet greens, brussell sprouts, cauliflower, aspargus, liver, & green tea.)

Green tea

White tea ('Black tea' has good benefits as well; however, green tea & white tea are the most beneficial.)

Walnuts

Almonds

Limit alcohol and caffiene intake (including the 'hidden' amounts in products).

What about usage of decongestant & other OTC medicines? Are there any other food(s), OTC meds., or supplements that would help or hurt recovery efforts? (I know 4 cups of coffee is good to help prevent strokes & 5 cups help lower the risk of dementia; however, I was informed that 2 cups/day is the reccomended intake for an AVMer.

Thank you all for your help! I will post a finalized list for everyone (as I know that being proactive in preventing any more 'complications' is better than having to experience it... "better safe than sorry"). Specific product information and the reason why or why not would be extremely helpful.

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Good for Vision
Food:
Carrots
Romaine lettuce
Spinach
Blueberries
V8 juice
Tomatoes
Canteloupe

Supplements:
Lutein
Lycopene
Bilberry
Zinc

Good for stroke:
4 cups coffee

Good for brain:
Fish (not fried nor ā€˜fish sandwhichesā€™) (2 - 3 /week)
Water (8 - 10 8oz. glass / day)
Omega-3 oils (Fish/Flax/Borage, Cod Fish oil)
Ginkgo Biloba
5 cups coffee / day

** Occasionally, I have found an ā€˜Apple cider vinegarā€™ supplement. (Apple Cider Vinegar is suppose to be good for A LOT of things; however, I am not sure if the vinegar part is good for a brain AVMer or not.)

Another member (whom Iā€™ll keep anonymus - but thank you SO much) was generous enough to share this with me:
ā€œAfter a lot of experience I know I can only drink in moderation because the alcohol lowers the levels of the drugs up to 24 hours after drinking. I have had a few seizures on a Sunday afternoon after a Saturday night out!
Some say caffeine affects epilepsy but I drink a lot of coffee and it does not bother me but it may you, also cough medicines contain caffeine. Another medication to avoid is anti-inflammatory drugs which I used to take but not any more, after a seizure.ā€

Cindy- I just read a study done in Poland about caffeine and anti-convulsants. It was documented that high levels of caffeine can decrease a patients seizure threshold and level of medication. I, however, have not had this problem and even went so far as to tell my neurologist that heā€™s nuts if he thinks Iā€™m giving up my morning coffee! lol Alcohol also lowers therapeutic levels of anti-seizure meds, mostly during the ā€œhangoverā€ period. I learned this the hard way, several times over in my younger years! Fortunately I gave up all alcohol just by the time I was 30:) Antihistamines?..Never had or heard of any reactions with these drugs. Sorry I donā€™t have new items to add, but you make a very good point here! Take care. -GK

Hello Cindy, sorry I canā€™t help you with this one as I really donā€™t know much about doā€™s and donā€™ts except that I have to take asprin every day as I had 2 artery stents inserted 3 years ago. I have a few coffees a week and tea most early mornings. Iā€™m probably not as good as I should be with foods as I lost 2 sizes of clothing whilst in hospital and just a couple of months ago, I started to really enjoy food again, and I do love fruit and vegetables!! Take care and good luck with this, Lesley.

Thank you Greg and Lesley. Your contribution DOES help. Again, thank you SO much!!!

Excellent idea.

DOā€™s: exercise good sleep patterns (consistent bed/wakeup even on weekends), limit caffeine 4-5 hrs before bed), relax 1 hr before bed

  • exercise as able
  • eat very health, making colorful veggies prominent in your daily food, avoid processed food since the good nutrients are much less
  • consider sleep your ā€˜rechargeā€™ and truly valuable
  • be grateful for what you have every day, focus on whatā€™s good in your life
  • green tea gives you some caffeine but also is very healthy. coffee is fine in moderation
  • learn mediation, yoga, relaxation techniques, etc. being calm and centered is a great antidote to great challenges.
    DONā€™T: avoid triptan migraine drugs if you can, i think itā€™s very risky. herbal choices like butterbur, B2 and magnesium work too but are much less risky.
  • avoid overdoing anything, exercise, stress, etc.
  • taking too much advil/tylenol can cause rebound headaches, so try to limit to once or twice a month

btw, I use a lot of the info on natural herbs from both my neurologis and from Dr. Tettlebaumā€™s work on chronic fatigue. his website is www.vitality101.com and his royalties from the recommended herbs are all to charity, so donā€™t have to worry about conflict.

Thank you, Sharyn! What is your smoothie recipe for fatigue? Can you please share it?

Cindy
I was advised not to have caffine but find it worsen my migraines not having it. I drink diet coke which I was told artifical sweetners are not good for migraines or seizures. I did not find caffine affecting my seizures and actually helps my migraines. Aspirin or any NSAIDS are advised to be avoided with AVM. With seizures it is very important when taking any medication you check with your neurologist because alot of them lower the threshold. For example I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis and because I can not take aspirin or anti-imflamatory medications my doctor gave me Tramadol. Come to find out this medication lowers threshold for seizures my neurologist advise me to stop taking it. Meditation helps me alot with both migraines and seizures. I found when I was able to teach myself to lower my stress and deal with things in a more calm way it helped. For migraines I use a magnet pad under my pillow. Wish I could offer more I will think more and add things. Thanks

Thank you, Lee Ann!

For all the responses so far: Thank you for including the ā€˜reasoningā€™ as well!!! It helps people to understand why it is or is not good and can be applied to other products.

My daughter has never had issues with ibuprophen. I watch constantly to figure out what it may be. There is only one thing I know of and that is orange soda. It may seem wierd, but within an hour of consuming it her head hurts her really really bad.

EXCELLENT list!!
My neurosurgeonā€™s office told me to avoid Rx Sudafed and OTC Sudafed. Also no estrogens.
Per an AVM friend who consulted w/pharmacist, the newer antidepressants (Lexapro, Cymbalta, etc.) can cause abnormal bleeding. I understand the older, tricyclic antidepressants are ā€˜okā€™ for us.

Thank you, Patti!

It looks like one type of the Excedrin Miagraine is out (because it has aspirin in it). The ā€˜aspirin freeā€™ version appears to be fine.

Thanks Patty for the information on which type of antidepressants. (FYI: An ā€˜Internalistā€™ doctor actually prescribed me the ā€˜newā€™ Cymbalta when I ā€˜appeasedā€™ others by agreeing to go and hear him out, whom I saw a few months after my craniotomy. I held steady about not taking those pills - and never did take them even though my mom & sister kept trying to ā€˜persuadeā€™ me to take them. My ā€˜inner voiceā€™ kept telling me not to take themā€¦ guess itā€™s a darn good thing I remained ā€˜stubbornā€™ on that one. LOL. Just goes to show that you canā€™t just go by what they do and donā€™t tell their patient.)

I received this (stroke & seizure) prevention advice from a prestigous organization that handles AVM:

  1. Maintain a low blood pressure, 120/70 is perfect, 130/80 needs to be addressed by your primary doctor. The bottom number is your heart at rest, an 80 means the avm is also being stressed
    2)Avoid aspirin, motrin, aleve,toredolā€¦these products are called (NSAIDS) Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drugs. We cannot take them because they thin the blood, if we where to have a bleed and our blood was thin it would be catastrophic
    3)Do not lift more than 20 pounds
    4)Do not smoke
  2. obviously do not use drugs like cocaine that raise the pressure in your head

Thank you, Kenzies!

Happy 1 yr. Anniversary, Cindy! :slight_smile:
Yes, I too have had neurologists, internists and even my physiatrist (rehab dr.) all too willing to give me an Rx for the ā€˜newā€™ antidepressants (including Cymbalta). :frowning: Itā€™s beyond frustrating that we the patients have to so diligently stay current on what we can and cannot take all the while coping with our intense health challenges. I applaud your efforts for putting together this list. Yay Cindy!! :slight_smile:

Thank you, Patti! I believe it will help us all! Personally, I know having this knowledge will help me focus on ā€˜living / getting on with lifeā€™, instead of being scared or skiddish. This list and continuing to do things to ā€˜improveā€™ me is the stable / solid ā€˜foundationā€™ I need to begin rebuilding my life. I hope others will find it as a strong buildingblock for reclaiming theirs as well (whether itā€™s rebuilding their life completely or a matter of reclaiming their life)!

I received this today:
ā€œHi Cindy, 2 cups of coffee/day is the recommended limit. remmeber, Soda contains caffiene ,so you may have to give up an afternoon coffee if you have a caffinated soda with lunch.
Glad you asked about OTC medications!!! For colds and conjestion, use CORCIDEN HBP, it has a red heart on the box and was speecifically designed for people who cannot tolerate having their blood pressure raised. My husband had a massive heart attack last year, so we have Corciden HBP on hand in our medicine cabinet.
Advil and all products like it including aspirin are totally off limits. They contain a chemical that thins your blood. Now god forbid your blood is thin and your avm bursts, it will never stop bleedingā€¦the exact words straight from my neurosurgeon!!! Take TYLENOL, other pain medications, Ultram, Percocet, Tylenol with Codiene, Vicodin are all perfectly sake. Dont ever let any doctor give you any type of blood thinners UNLESS he has directly talked to your neurosurgeon!!!
The best antihistamine for a cold is Benadryl. Will not affect blood pressure, treats cold symptoms, will make you sleepy.
ā€¦i dont know your age, Im 50, I was 40 when I had my 2 hemmoraghes, my neurosurgeon told me from day one that I could never be on birth control pills ( fortunately I was finished having my babies, my husband had a vasectomy) and he also said when I went thru menopause absolutely NO hormone replacement therapy. Well I went thru menopause and all I noticed was I cried a lotā€¦that went away.
You ask really good questions!!! I hope Im giving you the answers your looking for! Dont hesitate to keep asking questions.ā€.

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